Don't worry Sue, as soon as the rivers settle a bit I am sure there will be paddling to be done, maybe a little run on the Tees from High Force to Low Force or Abbey Rapids down the Winston Bridge? Nice section of G2/3 with portages if people don't fancy running the sticky bits
The Tees always sounds good to me. Bring it on.
(16-11-09 06:37 PM)Graeme @ YC Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at the 'Do you padlle an SWWC' on SotP there is probably about 30 that have put their hand up and I do know of a few more, so it would be quite an elite club if restricted to SWWC/OC1/C1.
But if it was a WW club then this would open up the door to a lot more paddlers, there were a lot of trad boats out on the Tyne Tour this year.
Hmmm food for thought?
I think a mix of boats would be good. Chase boating is much easier with a kayak and rescues tend to be easier with a trad or a kayak. SWWC seem a lot more limited in this respect and you are more on your own, needing to roll or self-rescue. So I think a mix of boats is desirable.
Cheers
MM
(27-11-09 09:43 PM)mangy mutt Wrote: [ -> ]I think a mix of boats would be good. Chase boating is much easier with a kayak and rescues tend to be easier with a trad or a kayak. SWWC seem a lot more limited in this respect and you are more on your own, needing to roll or self-rescue. So I think a mix of boats is desirable.
Cheers
MM
I think you are getting a little tied up/mind melded with the ethos of I can't paddle that if I ain't got the stars...
And I need the saftey cover of people that have covered this and that and the other...
I've been on several meets this year with peeps that have never been near a WW star course, nobody asked the question, they trusted each other's knowledge, and the runs were VERY successful... In fact on these meets I felt more comfortable than the one's where people were telling me how 'certified' and therefore, how good they were..
Beware, while Stars/Levels, can give an 'Idea' of experience, they don't give the full story...
Cheers
Red.
No, I'm not referring to all that at all. I am merely referring to a recent incident where an OC1 paddler had to paddle a kayak in order to rescue another OC1 paddler's boat. That is, he got out of his OC1, BORROWED a kayak from someone else, and then used it to rescue the boat. And the fact that lots of us paddle kayaks.
Cheers
MM
(27-11-09 10:32 PM)redframe Wrote: [ -> ] (27-11-09 09:43 PM)mangy mutt Wrote: [ -> ]I think a mix of boats would be good. Chase boating is much easier with a kayak and rescues tend to be easier with a trad or a kayak. SWWC seem a lot more limited in this respect and you are more on your own, needing to roll or self-rescue. So I think a mix of boats is desirable.
Cheers
MM
I think you are getting a little tied up/mind melded with the ethos of I can't paddle that if I ain't got the stars...
And I need the saftey cover of people that have covered this and that and the other...
I've been on several meets this year with peeps that have never been near a WW star course, nobody asked the question, they trusted each other's knowledge, and the runs were VERY successful... In fact on these meets I felt more comfortable than the one's where people were telling me how 'certified' and therefore, how good they were..
Beware, while Stars/Levels, can give an 'Idea' of experience, they don't give the full story...
Cheers
Red.
(27-11-09 10:45 PM)mangy mutt Wrote: [ -> ]No, I'm not referring to all that at all. I am merely referring to a recent incident where an OC1 paddler had to paddle a kayak in order to rescue another OC1 paddler's boat. That is, he got out of his OC1, BORROWED a kayak from someone else, and then used it to rescue the boat. And the fact that lots of us paddle kayaks.
Cheers
MM
mangy mutt Wrote:If there is a safe lead and bank support then the Treweryn would certainly tempt me - lower only at the moment tho'
If you want to paddle this sort of water you don't dictate these things, you get to know people, and learn to
trust them, the star and level system WILL NOT give you this... It's NOT like climbing....
Cheers
Red.
When I have been paddling that sort of water I've not been aware of anyone and their 'star' skills. I have however been aware that some people are far better than others. If you want to discuss star skills and your concerns about them I suggest you start another thread.
My point was that its better to have a mix of boats for the points I made.
Cheers
MM
(27-11-09 11:12 PM)redframe Wrote: [ -> ] (27-11-09 10:45 PM)mangy mutt Wrote: [ -> ]No, I'm not referring to all that at all. I am merely referring to a recent incident where an OC1 paddler had to paddle a kayak in order to rescue another OC1 paddler's boat. That is, he got out of his OC1, BORROWED a kayak from someone else, and then used it to rescue the boat. And the fact that lots of us paddle kayaks.
Cheers
MM
mangy mutt Wrote:If there is a safe lead and bank support then the Treweryn would certainly tempt me - lower only at the moment tho'
If you want to paddle this sort of water you don't dictate these things, you get to know people, and learn to trust them, the star and level system WILL NOT give you this... It's NOT like climbing....
Cheers
Red.
(26-11-09 12:19 AM)Graeme @ YC Wrote: [ -> ]Don't worry Sue, as soon as the rivers settle a bit I am sure there will be paddling to be done, maybe a little run on the Tees from High Force to Low Force or Abbey Rapids down the Winston Bridge? Nice section of G2/3 with portages if people don't fancy running the sticky bits
Graeme, that sounds excellent. I'll be working on running the sticky bits of course
(28-11-09 09:52 AM)mangy mutt Wrote: [ -> ] (26-11-09 12:19 AM)Graeme @ YC Wrote: [ -> ]Don't worry Sue, as soon as the rivers settle a bit I am sure there will be paddling to be done, maybe a little run on the Tees from High Force to Low Force or Abbey Rapids down the Winston Bridge? Nice section of G2/3 with portages if people don't fancy running the sticky bits
Graeme, that sounds excellent. I'll be working on running the sticky bits of course
As soon as I get me a drysuit I'll be up for it........then save a few quid and I'll be up and running (after my boat no doubt).
Cheers
Tim
Quote: I think you are getting a little tied up/mind melded with the ethos of I can't paddle that if I ain't got the stars...Rolleyes
And I need the saftey cover of people that have covered this and that and the other...
I've been on several meets this year with peeps that have never been near a WW star course, nobody asked the question, they trusted each other's knowledge, and the runs were VERY successful... In fact on these meets I felt more comfortable than the one's where people were telling me how 'certified' and therefore, how good they were..
Beware, while Stars/Levels, can give an 'Idea' of experience, they don't give the full story...
(27-11-09 11:12 PM)redframe Wrote: [ -> ]If you want to paddle this sort of water you don't dictate these things, you get to know people, and learn to trust them, the star and level system WILL NOT give you this... It's NOT like climbing....
Wow, that came from left field. What is your beef Red? Not sure anyone mentioned star awards.
...and as for climbing I am not sure what you are on about. Qualifications in the world of climbing and mountaineering mean nothing, amongst peers. I climb with Guides, Mountaineering Instructors and others and we all climb as equals.
The only one on this thread who has linked certification with how good people are is you
Cheers
Don't know where that lot came from?
Anyway just to clear up a couple of points;
No problem with having a mix of boats on a trip, but you have to bear in mind that a kayak and an OC1/SWWC will go places that a trad boat won't and the section of river would need to be chosen to accommodate the boats on the trip, there is no way a trad boat would safely negotiate Salmon Leap, Middle Force or Low Force falls on the Tees for example.
I agree that you should paddle to the ability of the group and know each others limitations, you should also be in a position to support each other.
As for star awards well, a new 4 or 5 star award is a professional river leader qualification much the same as an SPA, MPA, MIA or ML, the holder of these awards need to have a lot of experience before going through a lot of training and an assessment along with WWSRC and AWWSRC and 16 hour first aid courses to ensure that they can safely lead a group of peer paddlers on a section of river. So yes the star awards at the higher end are an indication of professional competence as are the coaching awards which are again professional awards. Another thing to bear in mind is that to achieve a 4 or 5 star award you are looking at a cost just for course fees of £450.00-£650.00 per course, about the same cost as a mountaineering award, if that does not make it professional qualification I don't know what does?
So back to the original thread?
(30-11-09 10:27 AM)Graeme @ YC Wrote: [ -> ]Don't know where that lot came from?
Anyway just to clear up a couple of points;
No problem with having a mix of boats on a trip, but you have to bear in mind that a kayak and an OC1/SWWC will go places that a trad boat won't and the section of river would need to be chosen to accommodate the boats on the trip, there is no way a trad boat would safely negotiate Salmon Leap, Middle Force or Low Force falls on the Tees for example.
Yes Graeme, that's a fair point about the trad boats. I'll be in my OC1 of course
As for the other points you mentioned I think that's for another thread?
Cheers
MM