Mmmm how to start this one, These days I tend canoe camp as a family unit where all the kit is separated out and we load up the boats as we camp on trips where as there are little or no portages. So we fill our boats up with luxuries like chairs a multitude of stoves tarps and tents chuck in your favourite array of wood working tools like axes, saws and the like. Add to this a bag of fire wood to supply the umpteen Yukon fire boxes that you know will be there, but still you take your own.
Now put yourself on a wilderness trip.......do you load your boat as normal with all the luxuries plus the 24pack of beer, really struggle on the portages hit every rock on the way down because your boat just doesn't turn as it should!
Nooooo! you say, but do you still want to be independent from the group?
But does the group of lets say four really need.
4, kelly kettles?
4, big tarps?
4, Yukon stoves?
4, different fuel types? for
4, different stoves?
4, sets of small pans?
4, water purifiers?
I would have thought the best way is to have personal kit, ie tent sleeping bag tooth brushes etc (you get the idea)
and group kit, a group of four could have two kelly kettles, using one base to service two kelly's = constant hot water.....
two tarps would be more than plenty to make a decent bivi to socialise under......cooking stuff, would people want to cook their own food on their own stove or would a communal meal at the end of the day be easier?
Your thoughts please....
Cheers
Tim
Kettle, constantly on the boil, 2 pans 2 fireboxes, (1xfrying), meat? Just skewer it on a stick and roast. Each man should take his own basha so you can popper them together if needed. That'll take care of 4 men. Of course, if you want to go light and rough it. Crusader cup!
(24-07-10 01:55 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]Mmmm how to start this one, These days I tend canoe camp as a family unit where all the kit is separated out and we load up the boats as we camp on trips where as there are little or no portages. So we fill our boats up with luxuries like chairs a multitude of stoves tarps and tents chuck in your favourite array of wood working tools like axes, saws and the like. Add to this a bag of fire wood to supply the umpteen Yukon fire boxes that you know will be there, but still you take your own.
Now put yourself on a wilderness trip.......do you load your boat as normal with all the luxuries plus the 24pack of beer, really struggle on the portages hit every rock on the way down because your boat just doesn't turn as it should!
Nooooo! you say, but do you still want to be independent from the group?
But does the group of lets say four really need.
4, kelly kettles?
4, big tarps?
4, Yukon stoves?
4, different fuel types? for
4, different stoves?
4, sets of small pans?
4, water purifiers?
I would have thought the best way is to have personal kit, ie tent sleeping bag tooth brushes etc (you get the idea)
and group kit, a group of four could have two kelly kettles, using one base to service two kelly's = constant hot water.....
two tarps would be more than plenty to make a decent bivi to socialise under......cooking stuff, would people want to cook their own food on their own stove or would a communal meal at the end of the day be easier?
Your thoughts please....
Cheers
Tim
Hi Tim
Good question, my answer would be to take everything that you think you will need for yourself.
Then, and this is the hard bit, make sure that it all fits in one 60Lt rucksack or drysack, for ease of carrying.
If you cannot fit it in to the 60Lt sack, then you don't need it.
We have spent plenty of climbing trips in the Alps, Pyrenees and further afield with this amount of kit and food, it also included the climbing gear as well and we were out for several days at a time, sometimes longer.
Ask yourself the question, do I need the Kelly Kettle or would a pan of water on the stove or open fire be just as good?
Do we need a tarp and a tent etc?
Another thing I would say it that it's easier to cook your own meals and have your own gear. It could be very frustrating if you you were up early but had to wait for someone else to get up before you could make a brew or your breakfast.
We all carry to much kit in our canoes, on a day paddle, a weekends trip or wild camping for the week. All nice stuff to have but unnecessary.
Another thing to remember is that traveling light does not mean roughing it.
By the way, where are you planning to go on your wilderness trip?
Terry
Terry, You're absoloutly right....
We do take far too much kit/gadgets with us on Weekend and Multi-Day trips.... Possibly missing the ESSENTIALS that we never use, like a first aid kit....
But there again, on a weekend trip, we can afford to take the gadgets...
, and there's nothing like playing with, and discussing, toys... for me, the Kelly Kettle, and the Woodgas are indeed space taking Toys.... I own one of them and LOVE using it when I can, but are they ESSENTIAL....
...
In My Honest Opinion..... NO...
Excellent question Tim...
I'll throw into the pot this question..., does it not depend on the people that you're planning on paddling with..., and how much you trust them.., that trust having been built over a period of time paddling together.....
Cheers
Red.
Not entirely in agreement.
Yes I suppose a lightweight approach has its advantages, especially when portaging, but bar negotiating the odd lock or two, what real portaging are we faced with in this country? Apart from the odd epic, we're not talking fur-trade country are we!
The comparison between hiking and canoe tripping always makes me laugh, we fill a 16' boat with mostly stuff we do not use because we can, that is the beauty of canoe tripping , well that and the fact you can sit down.
Being pannickity over kit weight in a canoe should be dependent on where you intend tripping, a week exploring a Scottish loch take what you like, doing the Rannoch crossing then a little more thought and planning may be required.
For me I'd prefer to cook on an open fire but this is not possible so the next best thing has to be the Yukon or indeed a firebox. Yes I could have a lightweight stove which boils water in milliseconds but where is the fun in that? I like the the firebox/kelly approach, it lends just that little more romanticism to the trip.
Would I want to rely on others for the cooking, or indeed would I want to cook for everyone else on a trip? No! Being self-sufficient whether alone or in a group means I will have a brew and a bacon buttie at 5.30 in the morning if I jolly well want one.
Quote:I'll throw into the pot this question..., does it not depend on the people that you're planning on paddling with..., and how much you trust them.., that trust having been built over a period of time paddling together.....
Its 5.30am Red, fancy a bacon butty and a brew mate?
(24-07-10 11:49 PM)Nige Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I'll throw into the pot this question..., does it not depend on the people that you're planning on paddling with..., and how much you trust them.., that trust having been built over a period of time paddling together.....
Its 5.30am Red, fancy a bacon butty and a brew mate?
Too, late, I'd have been up and gone back to bedywed by then mate....
Tim's question is still relavent..., and it boils down to, "If you went, what we would call "hard core", what would you take...
(I think that was the question anyway..? )
Cheers
Red.
(25-07-10 12:37 AM)redframe Wrote: [ -> ] (24-07-10 11:49 PM)Nige Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I'll throw into the pot this question..., does it not depend on the people that you're planning on paddling with..., and how much you trust them.., that trust having been built over a period of time paddling together.....
Its 5.30am Red, fancy a bacon butty and a brew mate?
Too, late, I'd have been up and gone back to bedywed by then mate....
As the trippers will all be mates why not have a communal kitchen along with the wood burnin stuff, every one has chipped in for fuel (or even carried their own fuel for their own use) so a brew and a bacon buttie at 0500 would be fine? as all they have used would be their own fuel.
(25-07-10 12:37 AM)redframe Wrote: [ -> ]Tim's question is still relavent..., and it boils down to, "If you went, what we would call "hard core", what would you take... I think that was the question anyway..? )
Cheers
Red.
More of what would be personal equipment and what would be classed throughout the trip as group equipment, best of both worlds, lighter weight and still have the dare I say "romanticism" of the wood burners.
Clear as mud,
Cheers
Tim
(24-07-10 05:12 PM)TERRY Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Tim
Good question, my answer would be to take everything that you think you will need for yourself.
Then, and this is the hard bit, make sure that it all fits in one 60Lt rucksack or drysack, for ease of carrying.
Ask yourself the question, do I need the Kelly Kettle or would a pan of water on the stove or open fire be just as good?Do we need a tarp and a tent etc?
If you cannot fit it in to the 60Lt sack, then you don't need it.
I agree but then I don't, a tarp, well if the weather is a bit wet you don't want to end up on your own in a tent, kelly / yukon with a canoe you can have luxuries. why not have the luxuries and still minimise the weight?
(24-07-10 05:12 PM)TERRY Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing I would say it that it's easier to cook your own meals and have your own gear. It could be very frustrating if you you were up early but had to wait for someone else to get up before you could make a brew or your breakfast.
See the above post for my reply
(24-07-10 05:12 PM)TERRY Wrote: [ -> ]We all carry to much kit in our canoes, on a day paddle, a weekends trip or wild camping for the week. All nice stuff to have but unnecessary.
Oh yes! that is certainly the case, but we can so we do. What I am saying is you can have the luxuries such as tarps and yukons but not take one each, to just take enough.
(24-07-10 05:12 PM)TERRY Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, where are you planning to go on your wilderness trip?
Terry
Dunno yet, Scotland would be nice, but looks like finances may not allow....we'll just have to see.
Cheers
Tim
A True, wilderness Canoeing trip, where anything goes, time is irrelivant.
All that is required is Canoe, Paddles, Knife,.Map, Compass.
Most important Knowledge.
Then again in a real world fill the bloody canoe.
Regards Bill
(25-07-10 09:56 AM)Canalvoyageur Wrote: [ -> ]Then again in a real world fill the bloody canoe.
Regards Bill
PMSL Brilliant Bill brilliant.....
Cheers
Tim