Before I start I don't want this to desend into a Duluth slagging session.
How does traditional canoeing sit with modern canoeing, the majority of us use wooden paddles can't get more traditional than that, but then you could go down the composit blade wooden shaft route "modern".
A lot of traditional gear has been superseded by modern gear but does the traditional still have a place cloathing, boats, and gear etc. what started this off was watching Bill Mason on DVD I thought if he were alive today would he use modern kit.
Is this following on from a conversation we had?
I guess if we didn't follow some traditional values we wouldn't be in canoes, probably motor launches (or powered canoes
)
That said there has to be a convergence of both traditional and modern. Take for instance Bill (canalvoyageur) traditional packs and a plastic boat I can only think of one member who does the whole traditional thing and thats Mr Red Kite with larpstrake boat and canvas packs and tent with wooden paddle and antique stoves. Probably the remainder of us sit somewhere in between, as you say with wooden paddles and plastic or laminate boats.
I sit in the camp of using what performs best for me; wooden paddles for the feel of them and a royalex boat for it's ruggedness and price, modern BA and dry bags but traditional methods, the paddle strokes. Why stick with tradition for the sake of tradition? materials and equipment have evolved, usually, for a reason; because they are an improvement. This however is not always the case; Kevlar boats are a progression from plastic and royalex but I would be too worried about the wear and stress incurred on it when used as I do my Royalex boat, especially given the price. I guess it's what works best for us or what sits with our ideals, take for instance some peoples love of old cars, yes they have evolved and improved but there is nothing like sitting behind the wheel of a classic, is there?
I will watch this thread with interest
I class myself a 'traditionalist' in the spirit of the word.
I use wood, composite blades (have used plastic/glass too); I use both a modern drybag and a modern version of the 'Duluth' (GraniteGear) sack.
If I could a) afford, b) had space; to own/build a wood n canvas boat it's what I'd use.
I used to be even more trad until I went to live in the Massif Central of France and came across some modern takes on paddling e.g. Short J versus Long J stroke.
I still tend to adopt a traditional stance when Poling versus a modern (aka Harry Rock stance).
I like to cook over open fire where possible and am in the process of making my own Baker tent for when I cant use my Tarp n Hammock.
I'm sure that Bill Mason would have adopted some of the modern materials on offer - other than I think in his choice of boat and paddles. He did say "if you like portageing you're either a liar or masochist" yet you see and hear him talk about having to portage to get away from the madding crowd and find true solace.
(02-01-09 07:45 PM)LAS247 Wrote: [ -> ]Probably the remainder of us sit somewhere in between, as you say with wooden paddles and plastic or laminate boats.
Nope.. only thing 'oldstyle' i paddle with is AndyM
Nothing against the canvas bags etc, just not suitable for my paddling
(02-01-09 07:45 PM)LAS247 Wrote: [ -> ]This however is not always the case; Kevlar boats are a progression from plastic and royalex.
Composites (with the exception of Carbon Fiber) have been around longer than Royalex which is fairly modern in canoe terms.
(02-01-09 07:51 PM)mattT Wrote: [ -> ]came across some modern takes on paddling e.g. Short J versus Long J stroke.
This I would like to know
I agree with Lee, its a case of what you want, and for what ever reason as long as you like it and it suits your purpose, it would be very hard to go all the traditional way as much as we would like to, I suppose we are all just living a dream, and there is no harm in that.
Regards Bill
Traditional ideas adapted for the modern day is natural evolution if you ask me. Even Mr Mears uses Gore-tex and I'm sure that if Mr Mason was still around then he probably would too. However, I do hold with the romantacism of traditional over modern so much so that my ideal canoe would be a cedar and canvas affair, if I could only win the lottery, weight issue aside they just look so much nicer than most modern craft.
(02-01-09 07:53 PM)LAS247 Wrote: [ -> ]This I would like to know
Both hands always above the gunnel, finish at the hip, pry of the gunnel.
Different in that the paddle does not stay in the water and or turn into a stern rudder by finishing behind the paddlers hip.
(02-01-09 08:22 PM)mattT Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-09 07:53 PM)LAS247 Wrote: [ -> ]This I would like to know
Both hands always above the gunnel, finish at the hip, pry of the gunnel.
Different in that the paddle does not stay in the water and or turn into a stern rudder by finishing behind the paddlers hip.
Thanks I'll give that a go, I guess it's a little quicker, more of a moving water stroke?
i paddle trad and mod
i paddle with modern cheap tack stuff that breaks easily(mark)
trad campers and cookers ( stu)
incompetent /knowitall on occasion depending on what theyve been drinking( lee and gav)
a general mix everyone else
Trad 'v' Mod...... I wonder
Surely most of uspurchase, acquire, use what ever we have seen before that suits our own sense of style, longing and sofistication.
For me I have a need for carrying a certain level of equipment and sustenance dependent on the specific trip.
Importance is in understanding what I need in an emegency situation (we have hit this one before) and keeping it dry.
Therefore, as most of us, sensible whether it be modern or traditional.
Aluminium table, folding chair, woodgas stove, fire bucket, wooden paddles, Wet suit, dry suit, dry bags, wicker food basket, inflatable chair for Mrs J, royalex boat
But the moto for paddling in canoes is comfort "Any fool can rough it"
Sir Jamatrad
Are we not taking some traditionalism with us everytime we paddle
Simply paddling a canoe whether it be a cedar and canvas, Roylex, GRP or Kevlar, we are persuing a lifestyle thats thounsands of years old. What does Becky Mason say on the RMs film? "Canoeing doesn't evolve, we just pass it along".
Most of my canoeing gear is modern, save for my paddle and kelly kettle.
If money and time were no object, I would go for traditional, as I find it has far more character, so much more pleasing to the eye.
I also prefer traditional houses, clothes, cars etc, circumstances dictate that I use modern.
Richard.